I Fired Again I Hit Something It Wasn t What I Was Going for So I Guess You Could Say I Missed
Full transcript of ABC News' George Stephanopoulos' interview with President Joe Biden
Stephanopoulos spoke to Biden in an exclusive interview Wednesday.
Read the total transcript of President Joe Biden's exclusive interview with ABC News' George Stephanopoulos on Midweek.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. President, thank y'all for doing this.
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Thank you for doin' it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let'due south get right to it. Back in July, yous said a Taliban takeover was highly unlikely. Was the intelligence wrong, or did you downplay it?
BIDEN: I think -- there was no consensus. If you go dorsum and look at the intelligence reports, they said that it's more probable to be erstwhile by the end of the year. The idea that the tal -- and so it goes further on, even as late as August. I think you're gonna encounter -- the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and others speaking about this subsequently today.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But you lot didn't put a timeline on it when you said it was highly unlikely. You lot just said flat out, "Information technology's highly unlikely the Taliban would have over."
BIDEN: Aye. Well, the question was whether or not it w-- the idea that the Taliban would accept over was premised on the notion that the -- that somehow, the 300,000 troops we had trained and equipped was gonna just collapse, they were gonna surrender. I don't think anybody predictable that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Simply you know that Senator McConnell, others say this was non only predictable, it was predicted, including by him, based on intelligence briefings he was getting.
BIDEN: What -- what did he say was predicted?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator McConnell said it was anticipated that the Taliban was gonna take over.
BIDEN: Well, by the cease of the year, I said that'south that was -- that was a real possibility. Simply no one said it was gonna take over so when it was bein' asked.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And then when you lot look at what'southward happened over the final week, was it a failure of intelligence, planning, execution or judgment?
BIDEN: Look, I don't think information technology was a fa-- look, it was a simple option, George. When the-- when the Taliban -- permit me back -- put it some other way. When you had the government of Transitional islamic state of afghanistan, the leader of that government make it a aeroplane and taking off and going to another country, when you saw the significant plummet of the ta-- of the-- Afghan troops we had trained -- up to 300,000 of them just leaving their equipment and taking off, that was -- you know, I'm not-- this -- that -- that'south what happened.
That'south simply what happened. Then the question was in the starting time the-- the threshold question was, practise we commit to get out within the timeframe we've gear up? Nosotros extended it to September 1st. Or do we put significantly more troops in? I hear people say, "Well, y'all had 2,500 folks in in that location and nothin' was happening. Y'all know, there wasn't any war."
But guess what? The fact was that the reason information technology wasn't happening is the terminal president negotiated a year earlier that he'd be out by May 1st and that-- in render, there'd be no attack on American forces. That'south what was done. That'due south why nothing was happening. But the idea if I had said -- I had a uncomplicated choice. If I had said, "We're gonna stay," so we'd better prepare to put a whole hell of a lot more than troops in --
STEPHANOPOULOS: But your top armed forces advisors warned confronting withdrawing on this timeline. They wanted yous to keep about 2,500 troops.
BIDEN: No, they didn't. It was split up. Tha-- that wasn't true. That wasn't true.
STEPHANOPOULOS: They didn't tell you that they wanted troops to stay?
BIDEN: No. Not at -- not in terms of whether we were going to leave in a timeframe all troops. They didn't argue against that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Then no ane told -- your military advisors did not tell you, "No, nosotros should simply keep 2,500 troops. Information technology'due south been a stable situation for the last several years. We can do that. We can keep to do that"?
BIDEN: No. No one said that to me that I tin can retrieve. Look, George, the reason why it's been stable for a year is because the last president said, "We're leaving. And here's the deal I wanna make with you, Taliban. We're agreeing to go out if yous agree not to attack united states between at present and the fourth dimension we go out on May the 1st."
I got into function, George. Less than two months after I elected to office, I was sworn in, all of a sudden, I have a May 1 deadline. I have a May 1 deadline. I got ane of two choices. Do I say we're staying? And do you think nosotros would non accept to put a hell of a lot more troops? B-- y'all know, we had hundreds-- we had tens of thousands of troops at that place before. Tens of thousands.
Do you retrieve we woulda -- that nosotros would've just said, "No trouble. Don't worry nigh it, we're not gonna attack everyone. We're okay"? In the concurrently, the Taliban was takin' territory all throughout the state in the northward and down in the south, in the Pasthtun area.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And so would yous take withdrawn troops similar this even if President Trump had not made that deal with the Taliban?
BIDEN: I would've tried to figure out how to withdraw those troops, yep, because look, George. At that place is no practiced fourth dimension to get out Afghanistan. Fifteen years ago would've been a trouble, 15 years from at present. The basic option is am I gonna send your sons and your daughters to war in Afghanistan in perpetuity?
STEPHANOPOULOS: That'southward--
BIDEN: No one can name for me a time when this would end. And what-- wha-- wha-- what-- what constitutes defeat of the Taliban? What constitutes defeat? Would we accept left so? Permit'due south say they give up similar before. OK. Do we exit then? Practise you think anybody-- the same people who think nosotros should stay would've said, "No, good time to become"? We spent over $i trillion, George, twenty years. There was no good time to leave.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But if in that location'southward no skillful time, if you lot know you're gonna accept to go out eventually, why not have thursday-- everything in identify to make sure Americans could become out, to make sure our Afghan allies exit, then we don't take these chaotic scenes in Kabul?
BIDEN: Number one, every bit you know, the intelligence customs did not say back in June or July that, in fact, this was gonna plummet like information technology did. Number one.
STEPHANOPOULOS: They thought the Taliban would take over, but not this chop-chop?
BIDEN: But not this quickly. Not even close. Nosotros had already issued several thousand passports to the-- the SIVs, the people-- the-- the-- the translators when I came into office before we had negotiated getting out at the end of due south-- Baronial.
Secondly, we're in a position where what nosotros did was took precautions. That's why I authorized that there be half-dozen,000 American troops to flow in to conform this exit, number one. And number ii, provided all that aircraft in the Gulf to become people out. We pre-positioned all that, anticipated that. At present, granted, it took two days to have command of the airport. We accept control of the aerodrome now.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Still a lotta pandemonium outside the airdrome.
BIDEN: Oh, there is. Just, look, b-- but no i's being killed right now, God forgive me if I'm incorrect about that, but no ane's beingness killed right now. People are-- nosotros got i,000-somewhat, ane,200 out, yesterday, a couple chiliad today. And it'due south increasing. We're gonna get those people out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But nosotros've all seen the pictures. We've seen those hundreds of people packed into a C-17. You've seen Afghans falling--
BIDEN: That was four days ago, five days ago.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What did you lot think when you first saw those pictures?
BIDEN: What I thought was nosotros ha-- nosotros have to gain command of this. We accept to move this more than quickly. Nosotros take to move in a style in which we can take control of that airdrome. And we did.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I-- I think a lot of-- a lot of Americans, and a l-- even a lot of veterans who served in Afghanistan agree with y'all on the big, strategic picture. They believe we had to get out. But I wonder how you respond to an Army Special Forces officeholder, Javier McKay (PH). He did 7 tours. He was shot twice. He agrees with you. He says, "We have to cut our losses in Transitional islamic state of afghanistan." But he adds, "I but wish we could've left with honor."
BIDEN: Await, that's similar askin' my deceased son Beau, who spent six months in Kosovo and a year in Iraq as a Navy helm and then major-- I mean, as an Ground forces major. And, you know, I'one thousand sure h-- he had regrets comin' out of Afganista-- I mean, out of Iraq.
He had regrets to what's-- how-- how it'due south going. Merely the thought-- what'south the culling? The culling is why are we staying in Transitional islamic state of afghanistan? Why are we at that place? Don't yous think that the one-- y'all know who'southward most disappointed in us getting out? Russia and Mainland china. They'd love us to continue to accept to--
STEPHANOPOULOS: So you don't think this could've been handled, this exit could've been handled better in whatever way? No mistakes?
BIDEN: No. I-- I don't recall it could've been handled in a way that there-- we-- nosotros're gonna go back in retrospect and look, just the thought that somehow in that location's a manner to have gotten out without chaos ensuing, I don't know how that happens. I don't know how that happened.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So for yous, that was always priced into the decision?
BIDEN: Yeah. Now, exactly what happened-- is non priced in. Simply I knew that they're gonna have an enormous, enorm-- wait, one of the things we didn't know is what the Taliban would do in terms of trying to go on people from getting out, what they would do.What are they doing now? They're cooperating, letting American citizens get out, American personnel get out, embassies get out, et cetera. But they're having-- nosotros're having some more than difficulty in having those who helped u.s. when we were in there--
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we don't really know what's happening outside of Kabul.
BIDEN: Pardon me?
STEPHANOPOULOS: We don't really know what's happening outside of Kabul.
BIDEN: Well-- we practise know generically and in some specificity what'due south happening exterior of Kabul. We don't know it in nifty detail. But nosotros do know. And guess what? The Taliban knows if they take on American citizens or American war machine, we volition strike them back like hell won't have it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: All troops are supposed to exist out by August 31st. Even if Americans and our Afghan allies are still trying to become out, they're gonna get out?
BIDEN: We're gonna exercise everything in our power to go all Americans out and our allies out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Does that mean troops will stay beyond Baronial 31st if necessary?
BIDEN: Information technology depends on where we are and whether we can get-- ramp these numbers upwards to v,000 to 7,000 a mean solar day coming out. If that'due south the case, we'll exist-- they'll all be out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: 'Cause we've got, like, x,000 to xv,000 Americans in the country right at present, correct? And are you committed to making sure that the troops stay until every American who wants to be out--
BIDEN: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- is out?
BIDEN: Yeah.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How almost our Afghan allies? We have nigh lxxx,000 people--
BIDEN: Well, that'due south not the south--
STEPHANOPOULOS: Is that too high?
BIDEN: That's too high.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How many--
BIDEN: The estimate we're giving is somewhere between 50,000 and 65,000 folks total, counting their families.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Does the commitment hold for them every bit well?
BIDEN: The delivery holds to get everyone out that, in fact, nosotros can go out and everyone that should come out. And that's the objective. That's what we're doing now, that'southward the path we're on. And I think we'll get there.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So Americans should understand that troops might have to exist in that location beyond August 31st?
BIDEN: No. Americans should empathise that we're gonna endeavour to become it washed before August 31st.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But if nosotros don't, the troops will stay--
BIDEN: If -- if we don't, we'll determine at the time who's left.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And?
BIDEN: And if you're American strength -- if there'southward American citizens left, we're gonna stay to go them all out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You talked nigh our adversaries, China and Russia. You already encounter China telling Taiwan, "See? You lot can't count on the Americans." (LAUGH)
BIDEN: Sh-- why wouldn't Red china say that? Look, George, the idea that w-- in that location'south a cardinal difference betwixt-- betwixt Taiwan, Southward Korea, NATO. We are in a situation where they are in-- entities we've made agreements with based on not a civil war they're having on that island or in Republic of korea, but on an agreement where they have a unity authorities that, in fact, is trying to keep bad guys from doin' bad things to them.
We accept made-- kept every commitment. We fabricated a sacred delivery to Article V that if in fact anyone were to invade or accept action against our NATO allies, we would respond. Same with Japan, same with S Korea, aforementioned with-- Taiwan. It'due south not even comparable to talk about that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yep, but those--
BIDEN: Information technology's not comparable to t--
STEPHANOPOULOS: --who say, "Look, America cannot exist trusted at present, America does not go on its promises--"
BIDEN: Who-- who'south gonna say that? Look, earlier I made this decision, I met with all our allies, our NATO allies in Europe. They agreed. Nosotros should be getting out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Did they accept a option?
BIDEN: Sure, they had a choice. Wait, the one matter I promise you in private, NATO allies are not repose. You think from your old days. They're not gonna exist quiet. And so-- and by the mode, you know, what we're gonna be doing is we're gonna exist putting together a group of the G-7, the folks that we work with the virtually-- to-- I was on the phone with-- with Angela Merkel today. I was on the phone with the British prime minister. I'one thousand gonna be talking to Macron in France to make certain we take a coherent view of how we're gonna bargain from this point on.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What happens now in Afghanistan? Do you believe the Taliban have changed?
BIDEN: No. I remember-- allow me put it this way. I think they're going through sort of an existential crunch almost exercise they want to be recognized by the international community equally being a legitimate authorities. I'1000 not certain they do. But look, they have--
STEPHANOPOULOS: They intendance almost their beliefs more?
BIDEN: Well, they do. But they also intendance about whether they have food to consume, whether they have an income that they tin can provide for their f-- that they can make any money and run an economy. They intendance nigh whether or not they can hold together the society that they in fact say they care so much about.
I'thou not counting on any of that. I'1000 non cou-- but that is part of what I call back is going on right now in terms of I-- I'm non sure I would've predicted, George, nor would you lot or anyone else, that when we decided to leave, that they'd provide prophylactic passage for Americans to get out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Beyond Americans, what do nosotros owe the Afghans who are left backside, especially Afghan women who are facing the prospect of subjugation once more?
BIDEN: As many as we can get out, we should. For case, I had a coming together today for a couple hours in the Situation Room just below here. There are Afghan women exterior the gate. I told 'em, "Get 'em on the planes. Become them out. Go them out. Go their families out if you tin."
But hither'south the deal, George. The thought that we're able to bargain with the rights of women around the world past armed services forcefulness is non rational. Not rational. Look what'due south happened to the Uighurs in western People's republic of china. Expect what's happening in other parts of the earth.
Look what'due south happenin' in, you know, in-- in the Congo. I mean, there are a lotta places where women are being subjugated. The way to bargain with that is not with a armed forces invasion. The way to deal with that is putting economical, diplomatic, and national pre-- international force per unit area on them to alter their behavior.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How most the threat to the Usa? Most intelligence analysis has predicted that Al Qaeda would come up back 18 to 24 months after a withdrawal of American troops. Is that analysis at present existence revised? Could it exist sooner?
BIDEN: It could be. But George, look, here's the deal. Al Qaeda, ISIS, they metastasize. There'south a significantly greater threat to the United States from Syria. There's a significantly greater threat from E Africa. There's meaning greater threat to other places in the world than it is from the mountains of Afghanistan. And we have maintained the ability to have an over-the-horizon capability to take them out. We're-- we don't have military in Syrian arab republic to make sure that we're gonna be protected--
STEPHANOPOULOS: And you're confident nosotros're gonna have that in Afghanistan?
BIDEN: Yeah. I'k confident we're gonna have the overriding capability, yes. Look, George, it'southward like asking me, you know, am I confident that people are gonna human activity even remotely rationally. Hither'south the deal. The bargain is the threat from Al Qaeda and their acquaintance organizations is greater in other parts of the globe to the United states of america than it is from Afghanistan.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And th-- that tells you that you're-- it's safe to exit?
BIDEN: No. That tells me that-- my dad used to accept an expression, George. If everything's as important to you, cypher's important to y'all. We should be focusing on where the threat is the greatest. And the threat-- the idea-- we can continue to spend $1 trillion and have tens of thousands of American forces in Afghanistan when we have what's going on effectually the world, in the Middle E and North Africa and west-- I mean, excuse me-- yeah, North Africa and Western Africa. The idea we tin can do that and ignore those-- those looming problems, growing bug, is non-- not rational.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Final question on this. Yous know, in a couple weeks, we're all gonna commemorate the 20th ceremony of ix/11. The Taliban are gonna be ruling Transitional islamic state of afghanistan, just fifty-- like they were when our state was attacked. How do you explain that to the American people?
BIDEN: Not truthful. Information technology's non truthful. They're not gonna wait just like they were nosotros were attacked. There was a guy named Osama bin Laden that was notwithstanding live and well. They were organized in a big way, that they had significant assistance from arou-- from other parts of the world.
We went at that place for two reasons, George. Two reasons. I, to get Bin Laden, and two, to wipe out as all-time we could, and we did, the Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. We did it. Then what happened? Began to morph into the notion that, instead of having a counterterrorism adequacy to have small forces there in-- or in the region to be able to take on Al Qaeda if information technology tried to reconstitute, nosotros decided to engage in nation building. In nation edifice. That never made whatever sense to me.
STEPHANOPOULOS: It sounds like you lot think we shoulda gotten out a long time ago--
BIDEN: We should've.
STEPHANOPOULOS: --and-- and accept the idea that it was gonna be messy no affair what.
BIDEN: Well, by the-- what would be messy?
STEPHANOPOULOS: The exit--
BIDEN: If we had gotten out a long time ago-- getting out would exist messy no matter when information technology occurred. I ask you, you lot want me to stay, y'all want us to stay and ship your kids back to Afghanistan? How nigh it? Are you g-- if you had a son or daughter, would y'all send them in Transitional islamic state of afghanistan now? Or afterward?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Would exist hard, just a lot of families have washed information technology.
BIDEN: They've done it because, in fact, there was a circumstance that was different when we started. We were there for two reasons, George. And we accomplished both ten years ago. We got Osama bin Laden. As I said and got criticized for saying at the time, we're gonna follow him to the gates of hell. Hell, we did--
STEPHANOPOULOS: How volition history judge the U.s.' experience in Afghanistan?
BIDEN: Ane that we overextended what we needed to exercise to deal with our national involvement. That's like my sayin' they-- they're-- they-- they b-- b-- the edge of Tajikistan-- and-- other-- what-- does it matter? Are we gonna go to war because of what'southward goin' on in Tajikistan? What do you think?
Tell me what-- where in that isolated country that has never, never, never in all of history been united, all the way back to Alexander the Groovy, straight through the British Empire and the Russians, what is the idea? Are nosotros gonna s-- continue to lose thousands of Americans to injury and death to endeavor to unite that state? What do you think? I think non.
I think the American people are with me. And when you lot unite that country, what do y'all have? They're surrounded by Russia in the northward or the Stans in the n. You lot have-- to the west, they accept Iran. To the south, they have Pakistan, who's supporting them. And to the-- and-- really, the east, they take Islamic republic of pakistan and China. Tell me. Tell me. Is that worth our national interest to continue to spend another $ane trillion and lose thousands more American lives? For what?
STEPHANOPOULOS: I know we're outta fourth dimension. I have two quick questions on COVID. I know you're gonna make-- be makin' an annunciation on booster shots today. Have you lot and the showtime lady gotten your booster shots yet?
BIDEN: We're gonna get the booster shots. And-- it'southward somethin' that I recall-- you know, because we g-- w-- we got our shots all the mode back in I think December. So it's-- it's-- it's past fourth dimension. And so the idea (NOISE) that the recommendation-- that's my wife calling. (Express mirth) No. (LAUGH) Only all kiddin' aside, yep, we will become the booster shots.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And-- and finally-- are you lot comfortable with Americans getting a third shot when so many millions effectually the world haven't had their first?
BIDEN: Absolutely because nosotros're providing more to the residual of the globe than all the rest of the globe combined. We got enough for everybody American, plus before this yr is-- before we get to the middle of next yr, we're gonna provide a half a billion shots to the rest of the world. We're keepin' our part of the deal. We're doin' more than everyone.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. President, thanks for your fourth dimension.
BIDEN: Thank you.
Source: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/full-transcript-abc-news-george-stephanopoulos-interview-president/story?id=79535643
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